What primarily led you to take an interest in North Korea?
Adam Johnson: The exact reason why I became interested in North Korea is because I teach novel writing at Stanford University and teach people on good techniques and how to become good novelists. As readers and writers, we focus on the way they do it, rather than what they want to say.
In 2004, I edited a book within the study program; it was the memory of a North Korean named Kang Chol-hwan. The English title is The Aquariums of Pyongyang. Kang Chol-hwan wrote about what it was to like growing up in North Korea, becoming an inmate in a “gulag” (the Yodok correctional behaviour camp) and about escaping.
My students and I found the book so terrifying, profound and shocking that we just spent the whole class sharing this experience. I realized that as Americans, we don’t know that much about North Korea, or the Korean War [1950 – 1953], where my country fought, and I felt I was very ignorant. So I spent a year just reading about North Korea and I became even more obsessed and particularly fascinated by propaganda.
You went to North Korea in 2007 but you werenít allowed to interact with people. Was it hard to know what people were thinking when they donít dare tell you?
Interestingly, we may think that there are defectors fleeing and telling their stories, and indeed, some do. But it is surprising how few do tell their stories, because they have experienced trauma in North Korea. They are also concerned, because anything they say can harm people they leave behind.
We also have to take into consideration that they want to move on, start a new life and forget the past. Therefore, there is a shortage of stories about North Korea. Many of the defectors’ memories were written by outsiders, who helped them write and tell their stories.
We have to remember that throughout their entire lives, North Koreans are trained to not express themselves and to never reveal what they really think; they are in the worst position to share their stories, but I hope that in time they find their voices.
There are North Koreans who are sent outside the country to learn English and other subjects. Isnít the government concerned they will be ëinfectedí by the outside world?
North Koreans are sent to Singapore to study business and entrepreneurship. They go to Beijing. My impression is that people do not flee North Korea unless they have to, unless their lives are at risk. Because to leave means risking everything: their whole family, friends, schoolmates, the roads, the trees, the towns. After escaping they will never again have contact with anyone, and any kind of thought or memory takes them to a black hole, nothing.
Escaping North Korea is running away from a life built up to that point. And that’s the scariest thing you can imagine. Therefore, only really scared people seem to do it. This suggests that people who are sent abroad, are people who have a lot to lose at home.
If someone is sent to Singapore and escapes, their family will pay for it. Who can live with this on their conscience? Even in North Korea, the North Koreans always do everything in pairs. Koreans are always accompanied, so that each one can inform on the other. They have this information network, which is not technological, it is human, based on fear, and it keeps people from the idea of defecting.
Do you think your book can help change things in North Korea? Did you consider that before writing it?
I don’t know. Firstly the book would have to reach North Korea and appear in Korean; it would have to be distributed and people would have to read it. My impression is that most North Koreans try to just live day by day; they are aware that their circumstances are harsh, but they keep their heads down and try to survive. I don’t know what could end the regime, I really don’t know.
After visiting North Korea, you said you found parallels between the propaganda in that country and the communication used by official departments of the United States during the presidency of George W. Bush.
If we look at particular societies, such as China, Russia and North Korea, we see propaganda elements during certain periods. I thought my country, the United States, was free from propaganda, but while studying propaganda in North Korea I realized that one of the features is to give names to the things that mean the opposite of what they really are.
For example, in Camp 15, called Yodok, is a field for families. When people enter, they are separated, women work to make uniforms, men work in the mines, children do small jobs and there is a special section for the elderly called “Respect for Elders Furniture Factory” where they make furniture until they die. Giving this name “respect for the elderly” when the meaning is exactly the opposite is the definition of propaganda. It is like the phrase “Work sets you free” (“Arbeit macht frei”) in Auschwitz. It is the opposite of the truth.
In the US, I think we are all used to the idea of “spin” [a form of propaganda or providing biased information]. During the Bush administration the “Healthy Forest Act” law was created, which actually allowed increased logging and forest destruction. There was also a law called “The Clear Skies Act” in 2003, which also enabled more pollution. Only by studying North Korea did I realize that propaganda was alive in my own country.
Do you think China may become the subject of one of your next books?
I became curious about North Korea because I wanted to know the human dimension of the country…but I couldn’t find that portrait. What is it like to be father in North Korea? How do people define themselves against a system like this? I couldn’t find this picture.
I was not interested in the political system. Of course it needed to be portrayed. But I do not think of myself as a political writer. I just want to portray families, marriages, test the notions of humanity up against larger obstacles.
I would say that I have curiosity about China, but I leave this matter to the Chinese writers in exile: in Hong Kong, Macau or elsewhere, who have experience and cultural knowledge that I don’t. I’ll leave it to writers who know the theme better than I do, before trying to do anything.
In relation to North Korea, the issue is that there are no writers. If you think about it, Japan invaded the country in 1910 and began the colonization period that lasted 35 years. They outlawed music, Korean literature, made people adopt Japanese names and learn Japanese, they brought Japanese teachers, and children learned the history of Japan. Then there was the Second World War, the country was divided between the super powers, Russia and America, and then there was a civil war. In the north they have had 60 plus years of dictatorship.
In North Korea, people haven’t had access to their own literature in a century; no one has an older relative who has read a book on North Korea. It is the most voiceless place. If we look at the worst times in the Soviet Union, artists could still choose to be writers; it was a risk, but they could write and could look at the writers who had preceded them. The inhabitants knew their history. In China people can choose to write against the government, they may pay a high price, but there are still voices. North Korea is totally different.
