Stanley Ho, the founder of Sociedade de Turismo e Diversões de Macau, SA, and the godfather of Macau’s gaming industry, passed away in Hong Kong on May 26 at age 98. He is survived by 14 children, 12 grandchildren and two great-grandchildren. Born in Hong Kong in 1921, he came to Macau with almost nothing and built a business empire worth over 50 billion patacas.
One of the last interviews given by Stanley Ho was published in the first issue of Macau Closer magazine in February 2007. At the time, Stanley Ho Hung-sun, then 85, faced one of the biggest challenges of his life: the relentless competition of those who not long ago had transformed a portion of the desert into the gambling capital of the world. Something that didn't seem to concern the entrepreneur much.
Getting an interview with Stanley Ho just before he fell ill in 2009 was not easy. The SJM boss also kept a daily schedule of appointments so full that even most young people would have difficulties in fulfilling it. On the other hand, from the point of view of company managers, there were issues that were too delicate for him to address in this era of global liberalization, subject to strict supervision by the stock exchanges, as there is a delicate balance between various sources of power and even disputes. serious enough to ruin multimillion dollar investments. When we spoke to him at his office on the 39th floor of the Shun Tak Center in Hong Kong, we knew in advance that topics such as the then recent resignation and arrest of former Macau Secretary for Transport and Public Works, Ao Man Long, and the long legal battle with Sister Winnie were matters excluded from this meeting. Others were also controversial and highly topical, however. Like the transfer that was then defended from the Portuguese School to Porto Interior, on land close to the Temple of A-Má; Washington's pressure on North Korea that jeopardized Stanley Ho's investments; or the alleged slowness of new American traders in delivering on their investment pledges.
Here is the reproduction of that interview, which took place on January 18, 2007, just a few days before the opening of Grand Lisboa, for the time being the group's biggest investment in the era of liberalization.
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"A show is never a one-man show ”
To get an interview with Stanley Ho these days is not an easy thing to do. The so-called King of Gambling still runs a daily agenda that most youngsters would have trouble coping with. Besides, there are some issues too sensitive for him to address in this age of global liberalization, close monitoring of the stock exchange, various powerbases in delicate balance and even family feuds serious enough to almost ruin multimillion dollar investments.
When we met him a few days ago at his office on the 39th floor of Shun Tak Center, in Hong Kong, we knew in advance that such topics as the recent dismissal of Macau’s former Secretary for Transportation and Public Works, Ao Man Long, and Mr. Ho’s marathon legal confrontation with his sister Winnie, were off-limits in this rendez-vous. Despite that, our one-hour exclusive interview with the Macau Gambling Company boss lived up to our expectations.
What role do you think the Grand Lisboa will play within your group of companies and among the other hotel-casinos in Macau?
Stanley Ho – I believe the new Hotel Lisboa should be the best hotel-casino complex in Macau. It should give a good impression to all of Macau and in fact, some Chinese papers say, on completion, it should become one of Macau’s landmarks.
What will happen to the old Hotel Lisboa? Many people already consider it small, old, unfashionable…
Let’s be very honest: I still believe Hotel Lisboa is very well designed. I think the architect, who was my relative, did a very good job. So I believe Hotel Lisboa should stay on at least for another 25 years.
Why should the Grand Lisboa become a landmark in its own right? Has it anything new to offer?
As you can see, the appearance of the hotel tower resembles that of a lotus flower, a symbol shown on the Macau SAR flag. There you have the symbolism. It has a much higher ceiling height, an improved atmosphere, which is a better way to enjoy gambling.
Entertainment included? I mean, new entertainment features were promised a few years ago, mainly by your American competitors, but until now nothing much really happened in this area.
Well, they made many promises that have yet to be seen. In my case, when I made promises to bring more prosperity to Macau in 1962, many people said: ‘Stanley Ho is the biggest liar on Earth, he’s promising the Moon, nothing that he promises is true.’ But I’m afraid many of them soon came to realize that I had honoured my promises.
Which other promises did the American casino operators fail to fulfil?
It’s very simple. They brought boxes and boxes of documents and promised thousands and thousands of new hotel rooms and many other tourist facilities. Instead the Sands opened with only 40-50 rooms.
But now they have thousands being finished at the Cotai.
Yes, now – but how much later? After making so much money! They’ve promised theme parks, convention halls, which are yet to be seen!
Has the competition been fair or unfair?
Let me put it this way: We are the only gaming concessionaire which is rooted in Macau. Being a local enterprise, all the money I made I put it back and invest it in Macau. The Americans, when they make the money, they sent it back. This is a great difference. We built the airport, the bridge, and many other things in Macau. They are all here serving Macau. But the Americans, they make a lot of money, and it all goes back to Las Vegas.
When was your first trip to Vegas? And what do you think about the so-called Casino Capital of the World? (I mean Vegas, not us…)
I seldom go to Las Vegas. It’s too far away and I don’t like long trips. I’ve been there 3 times all my life, the first being 15 years ago. But I do keep abreast of the development there. I must give them some credit: they’ve changed a desert land into so many hotels and brought in so many performances. But I don’t believe Las Vegas could overtake Macau ever. And I tell you why: Macau’s gaming industry has a much longer history than Las Vegas. Macau has been known as the gaming spot in the region, and it remains the same now. We couldn’t be better situated. We are next door to the Mainland, and now Mainland is willing to open up and to maintain Macau as the one and only place in the country where gambling is legal. So we can’t go wrong. The Americans have promised to bring many, many tourists from foreign countries. They’ve brought zero! All we are getting now are those free individual travellers from China.
Going back to fairness, just look at the new road network to the casinos, which all go through the American casinos first and Grand Lisboa is the last stop. It’s most unfair from the Obras Públicas (Public Works Department).
After some time facing competition from Sheldon Adelson and Steve Wynn, two giants from the gambling industry, which one seems to be the toughest rival?
Whoever is tougher isn’t my concern, because to me, SJM is always the toughest.
The Portuguese School is still an unwanted neighbour of the hotel-casino Grand Lisboa. How should the problem of its transfer to another place be solved without more significant delays?
The school should have been demolished and I should be allowed to rebuild it anywhere else. One department after another, some legislators, they’ve tried every means to block me doing this – again, most unfair. The Macau Government had agreed to our ideas but then came all this criticism with even these democratic legislators talking about feng shui. What is feng shui? Feng shui means nothing to me. All my life I never believed in feng shui.
Yet all STDM projects, including the Grand Lisboa, are submitted to a careful consideration from Feng Shui masters.
No such thing that STDM projects are submitted to a careful consideration from Feng Shui masters.
You have no superstition whatsoever?
No, and I give you an example. In gambling, especially among Chinese, red colour means the bank loses. In my casinos you can see red colour all over the place. What’s wrong? For me it means nothing. And for gamblers I don’t think it means anything either.
They’ve been using all sorts of excuses; the temple, for instance, it’s nonsense. The first Portuguese Caravela that came to Macau, in 1555, took refuge there from a typhoon. There was a story that Macau was named after that event as the children living there, surprised by the arrival of the Portuguese ships, started to scream to their mothers, ‘Ma Cao’, ‘Ma Cao’, because they thought those strangers were ‘Big Dogs”.
So, in your view, it makes sense if the Portuguese School moves to the place where the Portuguese first landed?
There is absolutely nothing wrong for the Portuguese School to be situated near the A-Mah Temple. It would be even meaningful in my opinion. Another thing: the Portuguese School shouldnever be situated near a casino. All over the world, schools should never be too close to casinos.
Gambling liberalization brought economic development but also some big problems to small and medium enterprises and to house tenants, due to dramatic changes in the job and the real estate markets. Any ideas about what could be done?
When a business is expanding too fast, it will bring problems to the economy and society. We rely on the SAR government to resolve these problems, or at least to bring the adverse effects down to a minimum.
Development also changed Macau’s skyline. Guia Lighthouse is now under threat of being hidden by several new skyscrapers. Are you not afraid all this might damage Macau’s charm and heritage?
It’s always been a contradiction – you want development for the city, but at the same time, you want to keep the beautiful heritage. For Macau, I think it has been doing so good so far in striking a balance between both.
Anything you feel nostalgic about old Macau?
I remember particularly those old days when I first started my business here. It gives me great pride to see Macau turning from a fishing village into a modern city. Memories are good, but at the same time, I also look forward to joining efforts with the Macau people in building a new Macau.
STDM is among the shareholders of Macau International Airport, which is going through a very expensive plan for expansion. Now that it’s no longer a monopoly, does it still make sense for your company to be investing in the Airport?
I’m not selling simply because there are no buyers. Can you find me a buyer?
But will you follow the Government with the huge investments required now?
I will look at the Americans first before I make a decision. Are they willing to come in like I did? Let’s see.
Your internationalization drive seems to have Singapore as its most recent target…
No, I’m not interested in Singapore – not at all! Quite frankly, Singapore can never get anywhere near Macau. It’s far too restrictive and, as I said, Macau has an excellent location.
News was published about SJM’s plans to buy 10 percent of the Genting Highlands’s future casino in Singapore.
They are not true, not at all.
So what is precisely the scope of the partnership being built with Genting?
I hold very little shares in Star Cruises and I’m just an ordinary investor in a listed company. I have no say in the management of the company.
Amazingly, your investments abroad took you as far as Iran, during Shah Reza Pahlavi’s regime.
I did open a racecourse over there and I was most successful: every night it was full of Iranians. Unfortunately, Ayatollah suddenly came and a change in the government made the project unfeasible.
Actually, when the Cultural Revolution was making a strong impact in Macau, in 1967, you didn’t seem to care very much about instability. In fact, you even presented to the Portuguese Government in Lisbon a plan to build a racecourse here in Macau. Why?
I proposed to build a horse racecourse in the Outer Harbour with the hope to bring more tourists to Macau. But Macau’s economy recovered very quickly after the Cultural Revolution in China, so the proposal was dropped. Really, Macau has a lot of potential for development. And no matter in times of crisis or stability, no matter how the environment is changing, my confidence in Macau never changes.
Do you feel worried about the current nuclear crisis in Iran – and also in North Korea where you still have some investments?
I think, quite frankly, the Americans were too sensitive. I don’t think something wrong will happen in Tehran, in North Korea or anywhere. I believe the world realizes that once you’ve started to use nuclear bombs, then any single part of the world will suffer. I don’t think any government, including the ones from Tehran and North Korea, will ever resort to nuclear weapons.
Once you said to reporters you were ready to bring Saddam Hussein to exile in North Korea, therefore avoiding US invasion. It didn’t work that way. What do you think about it now, after Saddam’s execution and all this bloodshed in Iraq?
I feel very sad. And I’m afraid if the Americans, as they’ve already announced, send 25,000 more troops to Iraq, the bloodshed will go on. My proposal was never accepted, so there was nothing else I could do. Of course I’m not a politician: I just wanted to help.
Negotiations with North Korea came to a standstill because of money frozen in Delta Asia Bank accounts, here in Macau. What are your thoughts on that?
Well, it remains to be seen but I’m hopeful this time the Americans will agree to some terms. After all, North Korea is a very poor country, its people still suffer from starvation, and all they really want is some assistance. If the Americans agree to give them some assistance, that’s it. So I believe the Americans should come to terms.
Have you ever met Kim Jong-il?
No.
How is your casino in Pyongyang doing? Earning some money?
It’s still operating, not making much money, but the idea was to enable North Korea to become more friendly with the West. And I’ve got full clearance from Washington. I was very cautious. I consulted the then US Consul General in Hong Kong, who was kind enough to send my request to Washington: ‘Do we give them a chance’, ‘should I open it or not?’ Three weeks later a message came from Washington and the Consul General told me: ‘Stanley Ho, you may proceed’. And I’ve got the green light also from the Macau Government.
Those were the days of President Clinton, who you even met once at the White House. Then came George W. Bush and his Axis of Evil rhetoric. I presume things have changed a lot.
No, I’m most friendly with his father, Bush senior. And even President George W. Bush has been most kind with me: he often sends me Christmas cards.
Who has had the greatest influence on your life?
Let me tell you, what has influenced me most is not human – it is knowledge – as I often remind my children, ‘It is knowledge that is your life companion, not fortune.’
What will be your main legacy?
I’ll leave it to the Macau people to decide.
Do you imagine life without you?
Life without me? Of course, the company will go on, and I am sure given our strong and solid foundation, the company will grow from strength to strength. A show is composed of various casts, whether on stage or backstage, and it’s never been a one-man show.
Do you have anyone writing your biography?
Not yet. I still have time. I think I’ll live for 5 or 10 years more.
Life, in his own words
Stanley Ho first came to Macau in the early 40’s as a refugee. Twenty years later he returned determined to change this city’s image and soul forever – which he’s still doing, like it or not. No more a spoiled boy
“I came from one of the richest families in Hong Kong, maybe ranking in the first ten. I’m the great-nephew of Sir Robert Hotung, who was known all over the world. Like him, my father was also very rich. He was a director and comprador of the Sasson. All the family was very wealthy, so in my young days I was very spoiled. My house’s in McDonald road, one of the best areas in Hong Kong; its garden was so big you could have races there. We were one of the first families to own motorcars and pleasure boats, and to have a holiday resort in Stanley. That’s why my name is Stanley. But then my father became completely broken after heavy speculation on Jardines shares. One of my uncles committed suicide for holding himself responsible for heavy losses and wrongly advising the family, another one killed himself after losing all his money. My father was so broken and it was such a loss of face for him that he left to Saigon, in Vietnam, leaving my mother without a single dollar.
When I was at the age of 13, my mother called me to a room, crying. And she told me she had been every single day at the pawnshop selling her jewellery in order to feed me and to pay for my education. The bad news was that from that moment either I’d got a scholarship or I’d have to find a job. I thought to myself: ‘my goodness, work as an office boy? I don’t accept that!’ So, from being a very naughty boy and one of the worst students in Queen’s College, I became one of the best by working very hard. When they announced the results at the end of the year, they said ‘Stanley Ho comes first’ – and everybody laughed. ‘The last, you mean’. But the teacher replied: ‘not this time. He was really first’. From then on, I’d been always the best student around. And I earned a scholarship to study at The University of Hong Kong, being allowed to stay in Ricc Hall. I still owe a lot to the Jesuits: they were most kind to me. During my university years, I was still the best student. I had no money even to go home at the weekend, so I would stay in the college studying while my fellow Riccians enjoyed life. I was at the Arts Faculty but later I changed to the Science Faculty, where I studied physics, chemistry and biology when, unfortunately, war broke out.”
Wartime teacher of Colonel Sawa
“When the Japanese invaded Hong Kong, I had to choose between being a volunteer in arms or assistant to emergency services. If I had chosen volunteer, I’d have died. I lost eleven cousins and they were all volunteers. I’m the only one alive. As an operator, my job was to call the fire brigade to save people. The fighting ended in 15 days. For me there was no use to stay in Hong Kong, as I couldn’t study anymore and I had no job. Fortunately, my uncle Sir Robert Hotung was then in Macau and he called me to meet him there. Macau was most kind to me. In two days I was summoned to meet the Governor, in the Governor House. I was quite surprised. Why would they call a 15-years old boy? Father Teixeira was there, and I was informed: ‘Stanley Ho, we have an important mission for you: Colonel Sawa, the head of Japanese Intelligence, wants you to teach him English’. And I did it. Colonel Sawa came every morning to collect me at 6 o’clock, in a green car with a yellow star. We would go then to Zhuhai, where pro-Japanese soldiers of Wang Ching-wei regime saluted us everywhere. At the sunshine he used to climb very slowly to the top of a mountain, where he would start singing Japanese songs, asking me to follow him. Then I would teach him English for about 45 minutes. And it went on like this for 3 years and 8 months.
Once Colonel Sawa explained me why I was chosen for teaching him English. He said it was at the recommendation of my uncle, Sir Robert Hotung, which made him feel safe. Apparently he was quite worried about possible attempts on his life.
Near escape from pirates
“My second job in Macau was secretary-general of Macau Cooperative Company (MCC), that belonged one third to the Macau Government, represented by the Economic Department chief Dr. Pedro José Lobo (described then by Times Magazine as the real ruler of Macau), another third to gambling bosses Kou, Fu and other rich people, and the rest to the Japanese Army, represented by Colonel Saito. I studied very hard then to learn Portuguese and Japanese. My mission was to help bring food and other goods to Macau at reasonable prices in order to feed people who were suffering from starvation and also the refugees that flooded into Macau. I clearly remember the moment when I arrived back from Guangzhou with boats full of rice, and was cheered by the people near Oficinas Navais (the Government’s dockyard) because they knew I saved their lives.
I went four times to Free China to get wood oil the Japanese wanted for painting boats. On my third trip the pirates received the information I was carrying 300 thousand HK dollars. At 3 o’clock in the morning, their boat came near us to make the deal. But instead of wood oil they showed us the machine guns they had in their boats. The 4 soldiers from Macau accompanying us all surrendered. We were all stripped of our clothes and I had to give them my gun and the 300 thousand dollars. At one moment I thought I could jump to the water and swim to safety, but I knew the rest of my crew would be shot dead. So I decided to stay. Then another pirate boss came and asked me where the money was. When I told him I had given it to one of them, he ordered me to identify him, which I luckily did even though it was quite dark. Then they started to fight among themselves for the money and the Captain of my boat asked me if we should take a chance to escape from the pirates. I agreed immediately. ‘All heads down, turn on the engine’, I said. Again the pirates started to machine-gun our boat but we were able to flee. In our way back we met a Japanese patrol ship and when I explained to them, in Japanese, that we were robbed by pirates, they believed in us and gave us fuel, food and water, which allowed us to return safely to Ponte-cais (Inner Harbour dock) number 10.”
Never say “No” to challenges
“At the end of the war, some people sent by Y. C. Leung tried to blackmail me, accusing me of collaboration with the Japanese. And they wanted 1 million patacas from me. I explained to them that I had a certificate from the Government showing that I was working on behalf of the Macau Government to supply food and save the people. So we were not helping the Japanese, we were helping Macau. And I refused to pay any money. Then 4 men with pistols, all in black shirts and riding bicycles, tried to grab me in Banco Nacional Ultramarino (BNU), in the city centre. I immediately asked the manager of BNU, Dr. Leite, to call the police and arrest those 4 bandits. You see, the word “No” never appears in my dictionary. All my life, I love challenges and never accept the answer “No” so easily.
On friendly terms with the Chinese
“I got married in 1946 with Clementina Leitão. A few years later I was running the blockade imposed on China after the Korean War started. I was doing it legally as I had an import license from the Macau Government. But then the Americans came to me, saying that I had violated the embargo on China, and from then on I was not allowed to import refrigerators, air-conditioners and many other things, which was very inconvenient for me. You know, I later submitted a proposal for the gaming monopoly in Macau. At that time, someone tried to lobby the Portuguese government not to give the licence to me on reasons that I was not on friendly terms with the Chinese. This was just the opposite. So I told my lawyer to kindly ask the Portuguese government to consult the American Embassy in Lisbon whether the Chinese were my friends or my enemies. And the reply was ‘Stanley Ho has been running the blockade for several years. So he and the Chinese should be very close friends.’ And of course, this finally helped clear the whole issue.”
Under threat from old pals
“Y.C. Leung sent me several threats just before we started to operate the monopoly. Number 1: ‘If you dare to operate a casino in Macau, you’ll die after 7 days. My aids will shoot you’. Number 2: ‘No person in Macau will dare to lease you any place for opening a casino. Number 3: ‘No one will be helping you. (Former operators) Kou and Fu will continue to pay their staff’. Number 4: I’ll arrange 200 baggers to surround your casino, so no one will dare to go in. Number 5: ‘All the ferries will stop running, and you’ll not be able to bring your customers to Macau’. I ignored all the threats because after accepting the license I had to open, otherwise I would lose face. I just promised I would not touch his gold business. On January 1st 1962 I opened the casino at 12 o’clock, and the Governor appeared 5 minutes later. The place was almost empty and there were almost no Chinese in there – they’ve all boycotted on instructions of Y.C. Leung. I still remember what I said at the opening. It was reported in the South China Morning Post. I said, ‘The view that our enterprise is merely one of a gambling character is really a misunderstanding and even a misconception. The unified purpose is to develop tourism and the entertainment business in order to achieve a new prosperity for Macau, and as a means to bring about the improvement of the welfare and living standard of the citizens of Macau.’ History proves that I did keep my promise.”
